Secondly, I will be sending out a collection for Scooter and his family tomorrow. There are also some other things in the works for him by other departments. Captain Rorrer is working on getting some guys/gals together to do a chore over at Scooter’s house. We will know more about what needs to be done this weekend.
Finally, I apologize but for some reason the comments on the post “Things I need to get off my Chest” didn’t come through until today. I approved them and I suggest you read them. As a matter of fact, I will post some of them right here below. I don’t post them to exploit anyone. As a matter of fact, I have never meant to exploit anyone…maybe certain actions or ideals but it has never been personal.
I would also like to add that I always enjoy hearing what people think about me. Does that mean I need to change if I don’t like what I hear. NO. It just gives me an idea of how people perceive me and if that isn’t the perception I want them to have, then I make sure to clarify myself. Not everyone is going to agree with me or like me…But if nobody does…ugh, I better get out the mirror and take a look.
Some of the once lost, newly added comments are below.
Anonymous said…
well said. how many more great firefighters are we going to lose to other depts? it seems every couple of months we lose someone, sure some come back, but most don’t. it’s pretty sad when guys would rather go to Iraq then work here. you barely get to know some of these guys and they leave for other depts. or just change careers. i’ll be gone in about 6 years and i have seen this dept go downhill. here is some tips chief,
1. promote the ones qualified. not guys who freeze on the radio and give back their rank. not guys who get drunk and bad mouth you and the dept. not people who spend most of their carrer in training.
2. forget the emt-i bulls**t. you want medics, hire medics. don’t run these guys off because they are C students. (that C is an exaggeration for some of you knuckleheads.)
3.make a decision and stick to it. don’t change sop’s constantly on us. you are running this dept in the ground.
one more thing, where the f**k is my station exhaust system?
12:21 AM
Anonymous said…
Great Points Rhett. Since you ranted, I’ll put my two cents worth in as well. Sorry, but I think it’ll be a little long.
Maybe the problem lies in trying to run a Fire Department without ever really being involved with having a Fire Department run around you. If you never really experienced the issues from the “grunt” side, how can you effectively handle the issues that affect those below you? Or for that matter, know how they affect those below you?
It is a numbers game. Betting on the odds of things not happening at one time.
Betting the lives of the Citizens and Firefighters.
We don’t have multiple, simultaneous incidents anymore, so we can do with less.
But wait. Let’s see. Airport Alert, Structure fire (with a firefighter down shortly after arrival) and another fire incident somewhere on the back side of Mill Mountain. Did those all happen at the same time?
How often are we “dumped” for ambulances in the City?
But it is okay, it doesn’t happen often. How would Scooters outcome have possibly differed if the Mill Mountain call came in first, then the Airport Alert and then the Structure Fire? Would there have been enough people on scene to do what needed to be and was done to save Scooter?
Promotions? Hah, seems that it is a whim and popularity contest.
Are the best candidates at the top?
Not entirely. Many great pump operators/drivers sucked at taking tests and were never on the top of the list.
But that really doesn’t matter today. Instead, if you pressure wash the Chief’s and his family’s floors, paint the Ass. Chief’s Church, or maybe even hint at discrimination, you get promoted.
People skipped repeatedly and given different reasons each time, you didn’t do this, or you didn’t have that, or someone had more time than you, only to next promote someone with less training, less time, etc.
Micro-management, there is a word that the office knows all too well. You MUST call ME before taking your apparatus to the garage to get a lightbulb replaced!!!!! Inconsiderate and plain STUPID comments are the norm. Comments that in the future can come back to haunt the individuals and the Department. But then again, “I do not recall saying that,” “I did not knowingly or willingly do anything wrong,” and “we have no plans to do that AT THIS TIME” are well know, rehearsed and used statements.
Policies written, rewritten and interpreted on a whim. Variations in disciplinary action for the same infractions. Decisions made and enforced without consideration of legality, morality, etc. until someone challanges the decision. And once challanged, the old “oops, we were wrong, sorry. A new policy will be out tomorrow to cover that.”
Many years of service have seen this Department go from a place that people enjoyed coming to work, to a place that people can’t wait to get out of. How many people do you hear today, that can tell you how much longer it is until they can retire?
Wake up Administration and smell the coffee (you expect someone to make and pour for you when you show up at a station). Get out in the field in an informal manner. Visit the station and the personnel. Show a genuine concern for the welfare of the men and the Department. Quit trying to find ways to punish people or make them guilty of ANYTHING, instead, find ways to raise your employees to a pedistal to which they belong.
Every day gets better or worse. The choice is yours.
1:14 AM
Anonymous said…
You said it Brother! This department is beginning to be so caught up in me me me that its blurring their vision.We have one who just wants to move you here and there just because he can. “Respect my athorati” as Cartman would say. All with no thought on special skills and knowledge. So we just say ” Boy it will piss him off if I send him here!” It doesn’t matter if people at 2 can actually do Hazemat or the ones at 6 are HTR, 10 can do ARF or E-5 and L-1 even have personnel who actually know extrication. Hell we even got a Lt. on L-1 who cant drive cause his foot is numb and cant feel how hard he’s pushing the peddles and has to wear 2 different size boots because of the swelling so he has to “Till” or ride the seat.I saw him the day before he returned to work walking with a cane. If it where any other we’d still be on light duty or lookn for a job! Wonder why he’s there? The promotions are all about what have you done for me lately, and will he still do what I want and not what he wants or what is right. These “young ones” cant do what there told because all they want is to get a badge and get off the medic truck or they are just here for the money. This makes guys 6 months out to busy to learn because there too busy taking officer classes and instructor. They need to learn there job as a firefighter and get some time in before they run the world. The quints are junk and need to be sold to the highest bidder to get some real trucks in here. Why not buy some nice used ladders that some Vol. Company has had sitting in a building for 5 years and go on 3 runs a year and they got money for new ones. Because we all know the Vol. motto “if we don’t spend it somebody else will”. We don’t really need new trucks just nice dependable trucks. All the “Tick” trucks have all the options you can get on them so there better than we could afford anyway! We need E-7 back on the streets or another ladder somewhere. I know for a fact that 7 was down the other night and L-1 was the only ladder on southside,and the were in 901 so how quick where they going to get there? The I’s is another story all together. If all these young guns would bite the bullet and take the class we would have enough medic’s that they wouldn’t have to ride as much as they do now. Think about that? If there were 3 or 4 medics at each house it would be better for all. You could skip cycles at a Oh the mouthy one’s? We as officers need to take this in hand and get control of our firefighters. I don’t mean be a ass just make them understand that if we tell them to do something there is a reason for it. Be a good leader and they will follow and respect you. Some of this is to blame on us because they have had officers that let this happen or didn’t care happend as long as they still got paid and nobody bothered them. So we need to ask ourselves are we here for the right reasons? God knows were not going to get rich at this. So I leave with this, There are hundreds of people who would love to be in our shoes! And if its so bad here don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! I love this job and Department there’s not much I would trade it for and I never get up and say I don’t want to go to work today……CAN YOU?
I detailed a decent rant for you all, several issues discussed; click for more.
I also documented Scooters return home and a fire in Northwest the other day; click for more.
Scroll to the bottom of the post if you are a recruit.
This video below (those of you at work will not be able to watch on City computers) is a decent view of a Retirement party for a coworker that even the Chief decided to attend. The retiree is a cop, but that is not important. I found the video on TheHouseWatch.com.
You have to watch the video in its entirety, trust me it is worth it. The banter between the retiree and the Chief and Captain is priceless. Even the Chief’s wife catches feelings.
I have been asked several times over the years why one guy gets a big retirement party and another gets a small one. Well the answer is that it has been accustom for the guys who work with the retiree, or other peers of the retiree put the event on. I will be honest with you. It seems as though you can base how much people like someone by the amount of people at their retirement party. Sure, it can be skewed by certain details which disallow others to be at the event, but it is a good measure.
Think about that if you are one of those boot-lickers. It is much better to be respected and get promoted based on merit, than to be despised and suck your way to wherever you are going.
As for the rookies just getting out of the Academy, I will steer you to this post that I put up a couple of recruit schools ago. I think it is a worthwhile read. Click here for the link, the post is simply titled “Recruit”.
- I got the promotional reading list and bought the books. Then I get the updated reading list, and guess what? The first list was messed up, so I bought a book that the City isn’t going to use. Where do I file to get my money back. The book being used is the newest edition, however there is still another book on the list which we use the older edition. WTF? Either way, for the most part the books are written by individuals. These individuals are gurus of their topic. However, at least some of them contradict each other in their theories, disciplines, and ideas. So which one do we listen to. Me? I just listen to the voice in my head that says it doesn’t really matter, because we have no way of checking to see if the test is actually correct. If we had an issue with a question, there isn’t anyone there to listen to it or make a correction. Plus we just have to guess which questions we got wrong and go from there.
- Promotions; when are we going to correct the problems with promotions. How many times are firefighters going to hear an excuse why they don’t get promoted. Excuses that cover the facts or real reasons why they don’t get promoted. I was told one time when I got skipped over that the others had more time in the department. WRONG. They didn’t. The other thing told to me was that Jack and John (names changed) had to be promoted because they were 1 and 2 on the list. HUH? You had to? But you skip over #1 and #2 all the time. I thought you had to. These excuses came from the top.
- Promotions part two. It is a good thing that we have a decent grapevine in Roanoke. Otherwise no one would have known that promotions were taking place. Remember, we are required to hand in a resume. How are we to hand one in if we don’t know when they are occurring? Why don’t we post an official promotional list. We have people who find out too late that they were looked at for promotions. If it weren’t for the firefighters putting together a list, no one would know. But that list always has gaps and is not always correct. We just need an official list sent out after all the candidates are made aware of their scores.
- Lack of tact. When a firefighter suffers cardiac arrest on the fire ground, and is spared his life because of the quick actions of Roanoke’s Great Firefighters, don’t ask stupid questions like “Mrs. Smith (name changed), do you know of anything that your son might have been doing to make this happen” (quote for effect, I don’t have the exact wording.
- Intermediates. Don’t tell guys one thing one day and change your mind the next. If they have to get their EMT-I then be honest. If you tell them no, honor it and don’t change your mind.
- Intermediates part two. Why don’t we fix the damn problem with the EMT-I contracts. Why don’t we just say that ever new hire and their mother will have to get there intermediate from this day forward. We know you can’t afford to put everyone through class. Better yet, why not put them through class before the fire part of recruit school. That way you can get rid of anyone who doesn’t want to take it. Find the money and afford the class. What are we going to do if the EMT-I certification is no longer acceptable and everyone will be either an EMT or EMT-P. Raise of hands who want to go to college for two-four years to get their Paramedic?
- Intermediate part three. Why is there so many different contracts for the EMT-I and EMT-P’s who have gotten promoted. This guys has to ride the medic truck once a cycle, that guy once a month, that guy once a quarter. This is not going over well among those involved. We need to have something that is reasonable and consistent.
- Seniority. The lost word in Roanoke. What the hell does that mean. The only thing it is good for is vacation sign ups…Unfortunately. It should mean more than that.
- Ladder 7, 13, and the Reserve Ladder. What the hell is going on. We play musical ladder trucks all the time. Trucks go to the service center to get fixed and they have to be pulled out to go back in service. It seems as though either Ladder 7 and 13 are at the garage constantly. Why don’t we prove to the City that we need another ladder truck yesterday. That way, Ladder 7 can park Ladder 13 outside as a parts car.
- Ladder 7 run as an engine. What has is come to that Ladder 7 is replaced with an Engine. See the above post. We need another reliable ladder. I wouldn’t be surprised if 7 and 13 have “Fisher Price” stamped on the bottom somewhere. And we don’t need to buy a single rear axle ladder truck. Who’s idea is that? WTF?
- Firefighters don’t need to be micro-managed. Our best leaders are at the Company Officer Level. They lead by example and firefighters respect them and follow them, learn from them, and work hard for them. Let the Company Officers and Battalions run their companies and shifts and the department will be so much better off. Don’t get me wrong, the work of higher Chief Officers is very important, as that of the subordinate firefighter. However, it gets hard on the firefighter when he/she has everyone above giving them orders. It is a lot easier if the chain of command is followed up and down.
- Firefighters answer to their company officers. One thing that really gripes my ass is when a firefighter, or subordinate officer supersedes their officer. You want to know what you end up with, micro-management. If you are told to do something, do it. It is as simple as that. I hate hear questions like why do we have to do that, or I don’t feel like it. It gives you a bad name.
The training today was proctored by Lt. Mark Brown, Captain Chuck Swecker, Captain Scott Mutter, Captain Matt Dewhirst, 1st Lt. Ellen Bender, and FF Jeff Oliver. They were very interested in the companies getting out of the training what they wanted. There wasn’t any hand holding or “Your Doing it Wrong” attitudes.
Instead, the training began with some classroom. Enough of an update to new understanding of RIT implementation, reasons for having an RIT, and when to call a MAYDAY.
Captain Mutter did some housekeeping of the utmost importance. He delved into what the hell happens when the orange emergency button is pressed on our portable radios. He went to dispatch to look at it at their end, and then reported his findings to the class participants. We learned a lot, and any day you learn something is a good day.
After the classroom, we had a series of 3 short “Firefighter Down” evolutions. The hands-off approach by the instructors was appreciated by myself, and it seemed as though no one else had issue with it. The hands off approach offered the opportunity for the companies to work through the incidents as they would if we had just hopped off the truck and were in a real situation.
The RIT disipline is very loose. Basically, as Captain Swecker explained (my interpretation and poor memory of exact word usage) you just have to be ready, competent, and willing to think outside the box. You never know what cards you will be dealt.
All in all, this was some of the best training I have had in a long time. A hell of a lot better than most certificate, resume padding, and poorly taught classes we have been accustomed to.
Special thanks to all involved.
If you haven’t had the training, be sure to make it. It is well worth it.
If you didn’t like it, you might rethink why you are a firefighter and hope that everyone else enjoyed it in case they have to save your ass.
First of all, Jay at Firefighter Hourly.com has talked about the two part (now three) post on staffing in Roanoke. Check out the post here and the podcast here. FireGeezer also covered the story here.
I believe that Jay understood me exactly, and in talking to many firefighters I believe that I got the point across. However, there are plenty of firefighters who still don’t think it is a big deal to simply mark trucks out of service for long periods of time for any reason at all.
I did not realize that my point would be proven so quickly, but yesterday was a perfect example of what I meant. Yesterday, Engine 2, Engine 3, Quint 7, and Medic 7 were reported to be out of service from 0800 – 1700 hours (8am til 5pm). That meant that at station 2 we were left with ladder 2 and medic 2, at station 13 we were left with ladder 13, and at station 7 we were left with NOTHING.
The interesting thing is that the neighborhood groups around station 7 were told that their service would not be changed (to which there was a collective laugh by the firefighters). If indeed engine 7 was still in service, one of the trucks would have remained in service (I should hope).
I can’t make this stuff up.
As for solutions. Well I have been working on solutions for all of this including the medic thingy. Sure, they are my ideas or that of the firefighters which I believe will work. Of course, all of it costs money. If it didn’t cost money, we wouldn’t be working the way we do.
First of all, I want to say that the reasoning for writing Staffing in Roanoke was to shine light on apparatus being taken out of service almost daily due to the lack of staffing. My solution is to hire more firefighters and/or create more positions so that when these events occur, we will not be taking units out of service for the lack of 3 firefighters.
Although I have been a proponent of a minimum staffing of 4, the last post was not intended to develop cause for it, I have written about that in the past and will do so again in the future.
One of the commentors asked about information on what firefighters do and reasoning for needing 4 firefighter on the truck. The cause for the question was for ammunition to assist in writing council. I want to be certain that we are at least operating at par before attempting to increase staffing for the 4 minimum.
The issue at hand is that Roanoke Fire-EMS staffs its fire engines and fire ladder trucks with a minimum of 3 firefighters. When we do not have 3 firefighters for each truck we mark trucks out of service. This is not the intended result of having a minimum of 3. The minimum of 3 is to ensure that we have 3 on every truck. If we do not have enough then we need to call in overtime (quick fix) or hire more firefighters (long term fix). Surely, the Department cannot guess when members will quit or retire, however it can be proactive by over hiring to merely cover the gap.
Almost daily, an engine or two is marked out of service so that members can go to intermediate class, instruct at the recruit school, or occupational health for physicals and drug tests (random tests), and many other reasons. However, marking the trucks out of service is not the answer.
For years, Administration has attempted to decrease Roanoke Fire EMS down to 9 stations (currently we are at 12, in 1995 we had 14).
We have lost:
Station 12 – closed around 2000, Engine 12 was taken out of service and Medic 4 was placed in service. We also sent 6 firefighters to staff a county station (Clearbrook). The County is still counting the dollars it saves!
Station 3 – closed last year, Engine 3 and medic 3 are now Engine 1 and medic 1. This was a cosmetic change and no apparatus were taken out of service.
Engine 7 was taken out of service this year and Ladder 7 became a Quint. Medic 7 was put in place of Engine 7.
It should also be noted that in 1991, Engine 1 was taken out of service to put Engine 14 in service on 460 (Gus Nicks area). City Council decided at the last minute to delete the new firefighter positions needed to staff the new engine 14 and simply up and move engine 1 out there from downtown. The newly funded firefighter positions became police officer positions.
With the future of the Roanoke Fire EMS Department still up in the air, the 9 station department concept is still on the table. Some of which would include the combining of Stations 5 and 9 (northwest), 2 and 10 (northwest), and 6 and 11 in Southeast. This was laid out in the Tri-Data Study recently completed for the City.
What will happen? Who knows. But rest assured, the trucks that remain in service should REMAIN IN SERVICE. It boggles my mind that the department is run on a skeleton crew. We have been chiseled away to bare bones and the future looks like it will get worse.
So as for right now, the 4 firefighter minimum seems far fetched when we cannot even comply with the 3 firefighter minimum.
I have stuck my neck out pretty far on this blog. And so be it if my skeptics only remember the stuff they disagree with. However, I have seen this occurrence long enough. I feel that there needs to be change. Trucks being marked out has become commonplace. I want the firefighters to know that this type of behavior is not safe or acceptable. I believe that many of us have become numb to the fact that it happens so often and feel that it is ok. It isn’t.
I just don’t want to be the person to be on this same pedestal saying told you so after a firefighter fatality or civilian fatality because trucks were out of service.
First of all lets talk about trucks being out of service. I think that if we had scrolling message boards outside of each station notifying the citizens of when the trucks are out of service and why, we would have several complaints. I know that a lot of it is part of life like going out of service occasionally and being out on a call, even out of service for training. However, being a firefighter on the Northside, it is amazing how often Engine 2 and Engine 13 are out of service due to manpower.
Now let me give you a little background. All of Roanoke City’s Fire Engines are staffed with a minimum of 3 firefighters (I will leave rank out of it). 3 of the 4 ladder trucks are staffed with a minimum of 3 firefighters. Recently, one of our Ladders (Ladder 7) has been staffed with a minimum of 4 firefighters. This is due to the fact that the Engine was taken out of service at that station and replaced with an ambulance. Better or worse, there are more issues concerning this removal of an engine. The Ladder that remained in place of the Engine Ladder combo now acts as a Quint, meaning the truck can do everything an engine and ladder can do (for the most part). The problem is that the truck doesn’t do anything on it’s own except sit quietly. Therefore, now you have 4 guys doing the job that in Roanoke requires 6 and in other cities requires 8 to 9 firefighters. That is right, in some cities, the minimum staffing is 4 on engines and ladders and even 5 on some ladders. But Roanoke apparently places a lot of stock in its firefighters by doing the job with 3.
I digress, the issue is staffing not removal of apparatus.
The point I was beginning to make with laying out the minimum staffing is just that; the minimum staffing is 3 on each piece except 1. If you walk in any fire station in Roanoke you will see 3 on the truck 80% of the time (just an educated guess). Where are all of the extra firefighters? Well the answer is that there aren’t many. With guys off on vacation, sick, and light duty, and vacancies due to retirements, firefighters quiting, and other reasons we are left with the minimum on duty.
So basically every day we begin with the minimum unless by chance a station here or there has an extra firefighter. Extra being used very loosely because actually an extra firefighter would be above and beyond the 4 assigned to most apparatus.
So that is at 0750 hours when we begin our shift. Soon, apparatus will be magically marked out of service because of numerous reasons. Company level training, individual training, drug tests, physicals, meetings, investigations, promotional testing, Captains meetings, and many other reasons. Basically, anything that would require at least 1 firefighter to leave the station and not be able to answer calls while being in their first due territory.
This is when, on the Northside, Engine 2 and/or Engine 13 are most commonly out of service. It is usually out of the Battalion Chiefs hands. They work with what they have. On the Southside, I would imagine that the situation is similar. I bet the citizens would have a fit if they knew how often these trucks are out of service, when just a handful of more firefighters would fix the problem.
In the past, I have been a huge proponent of minimum staffing of 4, or compliance with NFPA 1710. Right now, I am not even pushing for the minimum of 4, but rather just the minimum of 3.
After all, if we have to mark a truck out of service because a firefighter has to go to training then are we really meeting the minimum of 3. I THINK NOT. Minimum staffing of 3 should mean a minimum of 3 all the time. Doesn’t it just make sense. It seems to me like a cover up. Sure, the system allows for a certain amount of trucks to be out of service at a time. But for what reasons. Maybe we need to reform the system and add some positions just to ensure the minimum staffing is met.
I am kinda scared to ask for a minimum staffing of 4 anymore. The way things are currently going, if it was agreed upon, it would cost marking 5 trucks out of service unless of course we had every vacancy filled and everyone was at work that day.
I will leave you with a couple of things.
First of all, the Charleston review panel has come out with a recommendation of a minimum staffing of 4 in 2 years. Charleston FD is approximately the same size as Roanoke Fire-EMS.
Second, this video from the IAFF on NFPA 1710 (thanks for the heads up from Jay at FirefighterHourly.com). Sorry for those of you on City Computers, you aren’t allowed to access YouTube.
Thirdly, this video from Fairfax County IAFF on the topic of staffing.
I cannot thank my brothers and sisters enough for the calls placed to help Jeremy out with his house. We have guys from Roanoke City and Salem who have offered to help. However, more help is needed. Get your crew together and give him or I a call to set up a time to go out and help. More information can be found here.
The 3rd Annual Blue Mass will be held at St. Andrews Catholic Church on Saturday (tomorrow) at 5:30 pm. Please plan on attending. If you can attend or even if you are working, think about making a dessert dish to share with everyone. Contact Kelcey Branch on A Shift today or Willie Wines Jr. (page him) and they will make sure your dish gets to the Church. Everyone is welcome.
UPDATE: The events at Rivers Edge will begin at 2 PM. There will be food and fun for everyone.
There will be a flag football game on Sunday at 2 pm at Rivers Edge. Plan on being there to root on Roanoke City against Roanoke County and Salem. Players need to be there at 2:30pm.
Chief Hoback sent out an email on the City email server about a “Last Lecture”. I recommend you watch the video and read the article. Maybe I will write a “Last Lecture” for you guys in a while. While it is kind of morbid, the thought behind it is certainly entertaining and intuitive. Basically it is about what you would say if it was your last chance to say it.
Thanks also to all of the comments on the Roanoke Fire/EMS Apparatus Staffing post (click here). I appreciate all of the comments as well as how they are written. I will hopefully get a chance to answer some of the questions soon. Continue to keep the comments professional and constructive.
One last thing is the HTR training held yesterday. The pictures are up on VAFireNews.com.
Stay Safe
Let us talk for a minute about our apparatus. In recent years, we have seen a trend of catching up in the purchasing of fire and ems apparatus in Roanoke. I commend the powers that be as well as the apparatus committee of finding funding for certain apparatus. Ladder 2, Engine 11, 13, and 1 are all new apparatus and have proven to be very efficient. All but Engine 11 are Pierce. Engine 11 is a M&W fire engine. All of the aforementioned apparatus were very well received among the firefighters in the City.
The ambulance fleet seems to be seeing a decent turn-around on replacement. Although, we still suffer from the constant strain put on these trucks from running up and down the street all day long. These trucks have witnessed a shortened life span, and it is understandable.
However, with all that said we still have significant issues in our fleet. Some of the issues are understandable ( some are nearing the end of their useful life and need replacement), some issues were preventable (overweight, under-designed, and poorly planned apparatus), and yet others are not acceptable.
I learned recently that the reserve ladder truck cannot drive up certain hills in Roanoke. Recently, the reserve ladder truck, could not drive up Adams Street in NW Roanoke. The ladder truck made the turn, and the street was wide enough, the problem was the truck stopped moving forward. That is right, the truck could not pull its own weight up a hill and subsequently had to be backed down the road and the crew had to find an alternate route. This is inexcusable.
This ladder truck is our only reserve ladder truck currently. The truck is in service for ladder 13 at Station 13 currently, because Ladder 7 is out of service. Huh? Let me explain. Remember when they got rid of engine 7 and began utilizing Ladder 7 as a quint, well if ladder 7 goes out of service then ladder 13 has to be moved to station 7 to fill in and ladder 13 gets the reserve ladder. Do you follow now? It is a tangled mess.
Administration has already planned on replacing ladder 13. Unfortunately it isn’t soon enough. Now remember that ladder 7 and ladder 13 are only about 10 years old. The ongoing joke is that they will use ladder 13 as a “parts car” for ladder 7.
However, there is recent rumor that Roanoke City is thinking about purchasing a 100′ aluminum ladder on a single axle rear end to replace ladder 13. Didn’t they learn their lesson with the two quints we have now.
Here is a solution:
- Float a bond to purchase enough trucks to catch up. 3 ladder trucks and 4 engines to replace ladder 1, 7, and 13 and engines 2, 5, 6, and 8. This will leave you with a decent reserve fleet and replace the trucks which need it.
- Replace the ladder trucks with tiller 100′ straight sticks.
- Then make minimum staffing on all ladder trucks 5.
- You can easily obtain this with the SAFER Grant. Roanoke City won’t end up paying the full 100% of the increased manpower for 10 years (don’t quote me on that). IF YOU THINK 5 IS TOO MANY WATCH A LADDER TRUCK WORK AT A FIRE. There are too many tasks left incomplete or unaccomplished due to lack of manpower. Case and point, there might still be a roof on the apartments on 13th Street. However, that might be a strategy and tactics issue as well.
- While writing the SAFER grant application, ask for more staffing for the engines as well. A 4 firefighter minimum would bring our staffing to acceptable levels. If you are paying attention, one of the first recommendations by the panel in Charleston was to increase staffing to 3…then 4. It doesn’t have to be overnight, but the change would make things a whole lot safer and more efficient.
- Since I am on the topic…you know that problem with the medic trucks running too many non-emergency calls.
- Well here are two solutions:
- One: invest in priority dispatching, turning over the non-emergent calls to a third party transport company.
- Or…Two: re-invest the transport billing funds back into the system and put more ambulances on the street.
- …but that brings up another issue; not enough ALS providers. I am not going to tackle that right now. I will however hit on it AGAIN soon.
We have been so lucky for a long time. If you read current events across America, you will find incidents occurring everyday which require more firefighters than we have on all three shifts combined. While I don’t expect us to suddenly inflate our staffing to absurd levels, it would be nice to know that we are starting the game with enough players.
Stay safe
The costly alliance between the Democrats’ Big Labor and the Republicans’ Big Safety Scare.
My comments are in italics. The original article is in bold.
Before I get into this whole mess of an editorial I did read it start to finish and was amazed at the writing. How in the hell am I, as a reader of the Roanoke Times, supposed to take this article serious. After all, the writer thinks that Jim Webb is a Republican (read the last line).
This is what I am here for, maybe a professional opinion on the matter from those of us who are affected by what is going on. I have not copied the whole article, for that you will have to click the link above. I did include a lot of it though.
Move over Big Business. Big Labor now holds sway in Congress.
Labor unions have called in their political markers. In order to boost lagging membership, they have convinced both Democrats (already in their pockets) and Republicans (willing to support any measure that touches on America’s “first-tier defenders in the war on terror”) that every police officer and firefighter throughout the nation ought to have the Congress-given right to collectively bargain…
I don’t think I like the tone of “America’s “first-tier defenders in the war on terror”". Comments like that don’t get you anywhere.
This bill — passed overwhelmingly in the House and expected to enjoy a similar margin in the Senate — will cost local taxpayers’ dearly as localities will be bound to follow yet another unfunded federal mandate…
You know that this whole thing wouldn’t be an issue if our employers were looking out for our best interest and we felt efficiently compensated. Everyone around will figure all we want is more money, that is far from the truth. There are BIG issues to be decided on, fought for, and hopefully received through contract negotiations.
Of course that won’t happen overnight or in all localities, as management and labor often can strike fair contracts that protect everyone’s interests. However, with national unions calling the shots, there will be a push for standardized wages that could cause cities with lower costs of living to keep pace with higher-wage areas. This could mean huge pay raises for thousands of Virginian public safety officers.
The bill does provide one reassurance that the unions couldn’t strike. But it will do nothing to quell labor strife in localities where management and employees already are at odds. Nor will it do much to enhance working conditions and salaries in localities that already do well by their employees…
“Labor strife in localities where management and employees already are at odds.” Like I said, this is exactly why we need the right to fight for our working conditions. You wouldn’t believe the retaliation and strong arm tactics within fire departments.
The only benefit will be to Big Labor, which has struggled in recent years with declining union membership.
Actually, our membership has gone up.
Police and firefighter unions may make sense in parts of the country where collective bargaining is the rule rather than the exception. However, even then one union plays off the other, making increasing demands for wages, pensions and job protections that rise above those of the people footing the bill. And nonuniform employees generally must accept the leftover crumbs.
“Police and firefighter unions may make sense in parts of the country where collective bargaining is the rule rather than the exception.” What the hell are you saying? I am completely lost. So you are saying that it is ok for some States to allow it but not others, and in those States where it is allowed the PD and FD deserve it and it is ok. However, in the States that don’t allow it, the FD and PD don’t deserve it. Do you need help? I can get some guys over there to get the extrication tools out to remove your head from your ass.
There is still a chance, although slim, to stop this. We call on Sens. John Warner and James Webb to look out for Virginians’ interest — something our Democratic representatives failed to do.
Again, I will ask what you mean. Don’t you have a proofreader? Anyone? I will be sure to call on Senator Webb and tell him what the Democrats are doing behind his back. Then I will call Senator Warner and ask him if he is sponsoring it yet. If he says no, I will ask him why not.
After all, there is an editorial columnist who thinks it is fine…in some States…But only the ones who allow it…but wrote a paper kind of saying differently…but then contradicted him/her self…and then didn’t let anyone proof read it…and published it.
I think it is about time we get a voice on our working conditions.
Several companies run mutual and automatic aid outside of Roanoke City, as other departments run it into the City.
People have talked about a Metro style department in the past, however that seems to have gone by the wayside with Roanoke County building stations nearly on top of ours. I am sure the County won’t mind our personnel working out of Clearbrook as long as possible though. Eventually, the County will have to step up and hire more firefighters. I don’t want to get involved in their politics, but someone is saving the County hundreds of thousands of dollars each year by keeping their department underdeveloped.
The Metro department idea was again shown to be a figment of the imagination when the County build a brand new Administration building and 911 dispatch center. If we were even remotely thinking of merging, this would have been the start; to combine the 911 dispatch centers. It may not seem like a big deal to the individual dispatch centers or the individual Administrations but it is an issue on the street.
Case and point:
Roanoke (City) Engine 13 runs a first due in Roanoke City, Automatic aid to Roanoke County and Salem, and Mutual aid to both as well.
If Engine 13 gets a call in Salem, the officer has to:
- Mark in route with Roanoke City
- Mark out of service with Roanoke County
- Mark in route with Salem
- Switch to the correct tac channel
- Hope that in switching channels and radios that they didn’t miss any pertinent information.
Basically, I don’t see much issue with running Mutual Aid. I don’t know of any firefighters who wont answer the call of duty. The problem I have with it is covering for other departments shortfalls. Salem could probably stand to hire a few more firefighters to fully staff the trucks they have. Roanoke County…where do I begin. I don’t see any reason why the County doesn’t have 24 hour Fire and EMS coverage at every station guaranteed.
The last time I turned of the comments, you guys complained because you couldn’t post your comments anonymously. I found it entertaining the way some of you pouted around kicking the ground because you couldn’t leave your comments on the blog.
After a couple of weeks I turned them back on. It seemed as though some of you all calmed down a bit and the comments became a little more constructive rather than immature, childish, and unnecessary.
I know that a lot of you all feel that your comments are hilarious. Not everyone understands your humor. Not everyone appreciates your humor.
I appreciate your understanding in this matter.
For a long time now I have been a big proponent of EMT’s fulfilling their role and riding with patients in the back of the ambulance on BLS calls. All the while, most of the dissention has been among those who do not care for EMS and say that the EMT-I’s and Paramedics get paid to ride in the back. I have had long discussions with numerous EMT’s, Medics, and Officers to try and pinpoint what exactly the extra pay that ALS providers receive is for. Some say it is for the certification, others say it is to ride the ambulance. I do not think it benefits anyone to have a Firefighter/Medic ride the ambulance all of the time, and most end up riding the Engine at least 1 day a cycle. Of course if we had an abundance of ALS providers it wouldn’t be a big deal.
In talking with the EMT’s, most will state that they are ambulance drivers. Like I have said before, I have never seen it this way. If you ask many ALS providers they will tell you that the EMT’s should take BLS calls. Other ALS providers seem to be content with taking all the patients.
It seems as though the hospitals demands of nearly all patients having I.V.’s obtained pre-hospital and sometimes even the blood samples drawn makes almost every call an ALS call. The exception being most nonsense “BS” calls we run.
Therefore the system we use has created mostly ALS calls across the board, leaving only the nonsense calls for the EMT’s to ride in with. That is if the EMT knows what they are doing.
I will admit it, I had more experience as an EMT than a Firefighter when I came to Roanoke. I had volunteered as a firefighter for about 5 years, yet worked as a paid EMT in Richmond. Even though I only worked in Richmond a year, which was plenty, I have yet to experience many calls which I ran there on a weekly basis. Yet in Richmond I was an ambulance driver. Yes, I helped with pt. care, and there was a lot more on scene pre-hospital care given than Roanoke. We usually sat on scene for a while taking care of the basics on ALS calls before leaving the scene, whereas in Roanoke the medics usually take care of things en route to the hospital.
So I got experience with being an EMT. When I came to Roanoke, I was stationed at #9. I rode the medic truck a day and a half a cycle, basically every other day unless the other EMT was off and then I rode every day. I took patients in the back whenever possible and I knew what I was doing. If I didn’t I asked the medic, and if I didn’t feel comfortable with the illness/injury, the medic took the call.
The point I am getting to is that it seems as though we are not training EMT’s in Roanoke. It seems as though we are certifying EMT’s and teaching them to drive an ambulance. Then we are expecting them to become ALS providers. It just doesn’t work.
Ask any ALS provider and they will tell you if all else fails when attempting ALS skills to revert to BLS skills. For example if you can’t get the pt. intubated then bag them.
Over time, I have heard nearly every argument on both sides of the fence. I enjoy learning what others opinions are on the subject. I have come to the realization that the Roanoke Fire-EMS Department puts a lot of stock in its ALS providers. That is understandable. However, the emphasis that should be placed on learning the basics as an EMT is nonexistent.
It seems as though the $4000 carrot being waived in the face of these new guys isn’t working either. This blows my mind. I can tell you that if I had it to do over again, I would have gotten my ALS certification. Just think of the money I would be making right now. I have thought for a while that these guys are stupid for not getting it. In my mind there should be a line at the door. Sure there is a downside, having to ride the ambulance more. Unfortunately there is a cap on how many ALS providers we can have. However, I have come to realize that most of these new guys are in over their heads as EMT’s. Many see these ALS providers’ skills, knowledge, and experience and find it overwhelming. They cannot comprehend how they know all the stuff they are required to know. It is because the EMT’s are rushed through EMT class and taught to drive the ambulance. Sure they go to Continuing Education and might further their knowledge, but they aren’t really EMT’s. They are more like first responders, which I believe was a very short and basic class.
I know as I write this that many of you might not agree. Some things going through your head might be that you are a strong EMT, or that you know a Medic that is dumb as hell. I am sure that what I write about true about everyone. We have plenty of competent EMT’s. But how many would be comfortable on a BLS ambulance. That is what I thought. Oops, did I say that. Hang on; I am not advocating BLS ambulances. I think that every ambulance should be ALS. However, that is a good judge of comfort – that EMT’s should be comfortable taking patients in the back of the ambulance on a BLS truck.
Before all of the guys who were blue patches start hollering, you guys should know what I think about that by now.
There are so many other tangents to explore on this situation, some that I have hit on in the past and others I might get to in the future.
I guess my main point is that over the years I have thought that the EMT’s were somewhat at fault for not embracing EMS. That is the case with some who remain somewhat anti-EMS. However, it seems as though the system we have in place has set a precedence which has created EMT drivers.
My last thought is that maybe this is exactly what is wanted “EMT Ambulance Drivers”. If so, then why in the world would we want to take an ambulance driver and turn them into an EMT-I? The phrase that comes to mind is having the cart before the horse. You cannot become a skilled EMT-I if you are not a skilled EMT.
Thanks for reading the blog. I appreciate the good the bad and the ugly.
Some of the other issues over the years which left Firefighters thinking “What the hell were they thinking?”. For instance removing Engine 1 to Engine 14, Disbanding Engine 12 to create two ambulances, one of those being in the County.
I assure you that I know very well it is easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. However, when most firefighters tend to agree on something, that something is probably well worth listening to the firefighters. That is where the issue lies.
Currently we are just getting ready to settle into our new digs at the new Fire Station 1 Headquarters, closing Station 3 and possibly Station 1 for good. Yet when we are just getting used to the idea of our two oldest fire stations closing, we are thrown for several new ideas.
If you remember, back in September 2005, there was a post about an editorial that Chris Muse wrote poking fun at the fact that if Station 1 caught fire Station 3 would have to be called to put it out (link). His ignorance was commenting on how Ladder 1 doesn’t have any water. Well I wonder what he is going to think when the City removes Engine 7 from his station in Old Southwest Roanoke. Then who will put out the Fire Station if it catches fire? After all, Engines put out fires, right.
The plan is to remove Engine 7 from service at Station 7. Currently Station 7 houses Engine 7 and Ladder 7. Engine 7 has been in service since December 13, 1922 and Ladder 7 was added in 1950. In 1998 Ladder 7 received a new truck which is what some would call a Quint. A Quint was designed to accomplish 5 tasks at once; carry hose, pump, water, ground ladders, an aerial ladder. Which is great to get all that equipment to the scene at once, but does little good when you don’t have the firefighters to use the equipment. Contrary to popular belief, Firefighters put out fire using different tactics.
When the plan is complete, Station 7 will house Ladder 7 and Medic 7. Ladder 7 is a quint with a 75′ aerial ladder and 300 gallons and currently runs around 600 calls a year. It spends a good bit of time in the garage due to certain engineering flaws and I find it hard to believe that it will do much better running at least the amount of calls that Engine 7 runs which is probably in the neighborhood of 1200 calls a year.
The question is why is Engine 7 being taken out of service. The answer is because we don’t have the manpower to staff the new ambulance so Engine 7′s staff will be split up between Medic 7 and Ladder 7.
We don’t have the manpower? What about those six firefighters down at Roanoke County Clearbrook Station 7? They sure would fit the bill at our Station 7, after all they are our firefighters. Whose citizens are we concerned about first?
I know that the firefighters were shipped to Clearbrook to provide coverage for the Pheasant Ridge area, but was it necessary? Not in my opinion. There are many areas that the County needs coverage for in which they cannot provide service and they ask us to cover those areas with mutual aid. You don’t see Roanoke County placing County Firefighters in City Stations. Look all around the City, Station 11, 10, 13, 2, and 4 all have standing automatic aid agreements with Roanoke County which are utilized often. Other stations like 6, 7, 8, and 14 commonly run mutual aid with the County. It is working, all the mutual aid and automatic aid have provided the City and County with quicker response times for second due companies. However, the placement of City firefighters in County Stations is unnecessary.
It seems like a no brainer for me. Move the 6 firefighter from Clearbrook to staff Medic 7.
If you had asked me 3 years ago where we would be today I would not have thought that we would be 840+ posts deep. The blog has covered all kinds of topics and a lot has been thanks to the readers from Roanoke’s Bravest to readers across the Nation. We have seen the blog used as a tool for communication, to catch up with old friends, to get new candidates hired, to train, to network, and many other uses.
I must say that the very few occasions where I think about hanging it up and ending the blog I usually think of the good times I have had and the fun I have had in bringing the news to you.
I must say that if I could change one thing I would rather not have had to regulate commenting. Which has worked out. Most of the negative commenter’s have decided not to take the time out to register to post comments.
Today, I attended a blog meet up put on by Roanoke Biz2Biz and Stuart Mease who works for the City and runs Connecting People Blog. The event was enjoyable, and would have been perfect for any individuals or businesses who are looking into beginning a blog.
I don’t know what will come in the future. It is kinda weird, but I don’t have any goals for this blog. It kinda runs itself, but if you have an idea let me know. I have been focusing mostly on promoting VAFireNews.com which showcases the Fire/EMS Service across the State.
I would like to comment on how Roanoke Fire-EMS trains and how events such as FF Wilson’s unfortunate death are prevented here in Roanoke. Are we perfect? By no means. While reading through the article, I notices many highlighted events which are being investigated in this case and realized what we do and why we do them. My comments on how we do recruit schools are based on the last recruit school in Roanoke, which I was a part of. I cannot comment on all recruit schools or future ones.
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Binetti said the way the blaze was started and whether a “walkthrough” was held to inspect the building before setting the fires are two areas investigators are scrutinizing.
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When putting out fires, the department is supposed to make sure a secondary team of firefighters – a Rapid Intervention Team – is suited up to replace firefighters who are tired, injured or in trouble. At the South Calverton Road fire, the head of that team, Broyes, did not have a hose charged and did not have proper equipment, union officials have said.
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And, union officials said yesterday, Broyes‘ RIT was not composed of real firefighters, but of cadets from Wilson’s class.
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Union officials also said that the “instructors” used in the training exercise were not certified teachers from the academy. They were regular firefighters pulling extra shifts. This means they were not properly trained to teach in a live fire, Fugate said.
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Sledgeski said only one hydrant was tapped for the exercise. When a house is on fire, the department will typically connect a “pumper truck” to a hydrant and then run multiple hoses from the truck.
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Fires were set on each floor of the three-story rowhouse on South Calverton Road, Sledgeski said. Safety standards limit training exercises to one fire. Sledgeski said recruits were told that they would face only two fires. The third was essentially a “surprise” fire.
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The instructor in charge of the third-floor team did not have a radio to find out what was going wrong.
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In Lairdsville, a tiny town in upstate New York, a volunteer fire chief was convicted of negligent homicide and served jail time for his role in a fatal training exercise that involved a set fire in a century-old farm house. But in that case, several recruits were ordered to go upstairs and lie down so they could pretend to be victims.No fire hoses were charged before the fire was set and the lines were not in position. Also, plywood boards were nailed over the windows, leaving a small hole in one wall as the only escape route.The deputy chief, who later went to jail, set a sofa on fire directly below where the recruits were playing victim. “The fire raged out of control, raced up the staircase, and the entire place became an inferno,” said Michael A. Coluzza, who prosecuted the case.
I let the rather juvenile comments go long enough, and I have realized that even with this site which gives the “Roanoke Firefighters” a chance to showcase themselves on the Internet you guys will inevitably ruin a good thing.
Now, if you have something to say it will require you to invest a little time and energy in signing up to say it. Hopefully, this will thwart the comments which are better left muttered under your breathe.
I apologize to the people who enjoyed leaving comments on this site which were insightful, constructive, and positive.
When I started this site, my intention wasn’t to create something I would have to babysit. Actually, I was hoping to create a site that the Roanoke Firefighters would embrace as their own and use as a tool to voice a professional opinion occasionally on topics that I post on.
You may be thinking that I have offered my opinion on this site often and you don’t always agree with it. You are right, I have. However, I have always signed my name to it. I don’t think that half of the recent comments would have been typed if you had to sign your name to them. Do you?
Five injured in six-alarm fire in Queens
By Patricia Wu
(Queens – WABC, February 4, 2007)
The flames quickly spread between buildings and sent several hundred people out into the street.
It started in an apartment building on Neilson Street in Far Rockaway.
Eyewitness News reporter Patricia Wu joins with the latest.
Kathy Deherrera and her husband are thankful to be alive. They woke up just after midnight. Their apartment building was on fire.
“The more windows popping, more noise, more firemen, more trucks,” one of fire victims, Kathy Deherrera, said. “We decided to leave. We did.”
What a tough job for firefighters. The extreme heat of this six-alarm blaze caused the entire roof of the six-story apartment building to collapse.
It took more than 400 firefighters more than four hours to get this fire under control and they faced one hurdle after another. First a transformer exploded, causing power to be shut off to the building and several others in the area had to be shut off as well to protect the firefighters. (Read More)
Did you read that: there were 400 firefighters on scene. To put that into perspective, that is a small dent in the mere 12,000 or so FDNY firefighters. But if you were to have a fire of that size in the Roanoke Valley; there are only 77 firefighters on duty in the City of Roanoke at a time if no one was off. This is out of 270 total, give or take a few, on payroll. Roanoke County has around 120 career firefighters (I may be off) which would equate to 40 on duty at a time. Salem has around 40 firefighters equating to around 12 on duty at a time. Vinton has around 12 firefighters equating to 4 on duty at a time.
Therefore, on duty the Roanoke Valley has around 134 firefighters on duty at at time totally a total workforce of 442 career firefighters. I realize this doesn’t include the volunteers, which I haven’t the slightest clue on numbers.
So a fire of this capacity might require a total callback of every career firefighter in the Valley. You figure at least 42 of them might not be able to respond.
Just thought I would put that fire into perspective.
